Margaret Meyer
We are so excited to share with you Chloe’s interview with Margaret Meyer. Margaret lives in Norwich, England, and the nearby Suffolk seaside town of Aldeburgh is where the real-life inspiration came for her exceptional novel. East-Anglia, 1645-47, is where the deadliest witch-hunts in England took place with over a hundred women losing their lives at the hands of men (and some women), and this is what’s at the heart of this debut. The witch hunters “carried out intimate body searches of the accused, looking for witch’s marks – patches of suspicious-looking skin – that she needled and pricked with her lancet", and this is an interview you don’t want to miss.
What does a day in the life of Margaret Meyer look like?
I’m not an early riser! My wonderful husband brings me a cup of tea every morning without fail because I can’t fully wake up without tea. While I drink it I scan the news headlines, look at emails and Instagram. Then it’s time to walk the dog. I usually get to my desk around 9.30am and like to do 3-4 hours writing, or writing and research. I like to work surrounded by books, so I will quite often go to the University of East Anglia’s library and write there. Afternoons are for admin, another dog walk, a trip to the gym or pulling some weeds out of the garden. If the muse is with me I’ll sometimes do another hour’s writing or editing.
What was the catalyst for writing a story about the East-Anglian witch trials of 1645-7?
The catalyst was a visit to a local museum in Aldeburgh, a picturesque Suffolk seaside town and one of my very favourite places. I already knew of the 1645-7 witch hunt, but in the museum I discovered that self-styled witch-hunter Matthew Hopkins had visited the town in winter 1646 to purge it of its witches. Hopkins ‘outed’ seven women, who were quickly hanged. He was assisted by Mary Phillips, who was Hopkins’ ‘search woman’; she carried out intimate body searches of the accused, looking for witch’s marks – patches of suspicious-looking skin – that she needled and pricked with her lancet.
I was shocked to learn that women had been actively involved in witch-hunting. I was also shocked, and deeply saddened, to find that none of the seven accused women were named in the historical record. I thought how the loss of their lives was bad enough, but the loss of their names meant that they were obliterated from history. This was the spur: I resolved then and there that I wanted to write something to commemorate these women.
How did you set yourself up for a day of writing?
I read and re-read my research notes. Or I would read other historical fiction, looking especially at other writers such as Hilary Mantel, Annie Proulx and Toni Morrison, to look at how they created and maintained the ‘worlds’ of their novels. Then I would get to work on my own project.
Were you ever tempted to write a work of historical non-fiction when you discovered this story? Why did you choose to fictionalise it?
The choice to fictionalise this piece of history was for me straightforward. I’m a firm believer in the story and narrative, because of their power to inform, engage emotions and make memories all at once. Hilary Mantel said something similar when challenged about her depiction of Thomas Cromwell (in her Wolf Hall trilogy). She maintained her fictional account had done more to create interest in the man and his deeds than any nonfiction history book. I think there’s great truth in this. As well, fiction permits much more latitude for a writer. In my case, I wanted to draw on details from a number of different witch trials from the whole of this period, so that I could weave them into one central story. Fiction allowed me to do this.
So far as nonfiction goes, I think others are far better qualified than me to write about British and European witch trials.
How did you go about researching this story and was there a discovery that took you by surprise?
I started by reading around UK witch-hunting and of course this particular hunt, which was England’s deadliest, in some detail. Because the setting of my novel – a village called Cleftwater – is a mash-up of various towns and landscapes along the Norfolk/Suffolk coast, I read various biographies of some these towns. I did some primary research, looking at 17th-century records, although this was abruptly curtailed by lockdown. The rest of my research I had to do online.
I was consistently surprised by the way whole villages would get engaged in a witch-hunt, which was very much a community affair. It was shocking and sad to read the many accounts of neighbour turning against neighbour – such was the extent of their fear.
In the early stages of writing the book I was working 2 days a week in medium secure prisons, running reading and literacy groups for male prisoners serving sentences for, mostly, violence against women. Inevitably, this experience shaped my writing. It gave me a great deal of insight into why and how violence can arise. Many of the men were literally consumed with remorse for what they’d done. I learned an enormous amount from talking to them.
Were there any women who came up during your research who you had a particular affinity for and why?
An elderly woman called Elizabeth Clark (c.1565-1645), a disabled widow who was absolutely destitute, was the first woman to be accused in 1645. She was ‘watched’ by the witch-hunters – a form of torture that involved the victim being walked up and down for days and nights on end. Unsurprisingly, Elizabeth finally confessed, and in so doing implicated other local women. Finally she was hanged. I really felt for poor Elizabeth and wanted to commemorate her in my book as the destitute pauper, Ma Southern.
You’ve said this book is “dedicated to the #MeToo movement: to women who’ve been silenced, and those who speak out,” and there’s emphasis on the fact that the women hunted and murdered were at the direction and hands of men. What parallels did you notice between the treatment of the women you wrote about and how, generally speaking, women are treated today?
There are so many parallels, all of which are concerning. It's no over-statement to say that right around the world, women’s freedoms and rights are being curtailed and eroded. Women are still, and repeatedly, being ‘othered’, abused and preyed on today. In the time it took to complete The Witching Tide, here in the UK two young women, Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa, were murdered as they walked home. Sarah Everard’s killing was doubly shocking because it was carried out by a serving policeman.
Public outrage was further stoked by the unreasonable force used by the police to close down a vigil for Sarah, organized by women for women. The organisers had taken every step to liaise with the police. Also during this period, the Taliban banned women and girls first from access to education and then from leaving their own homes unaccompanied. Donald Trump while President tweeted the word ‘witch’ over 3000 times (approx. once every 3 days). Then the Ukraine war broke out: the rape and murder of women and girls is a war crime with deep historical roots and it’s being perpetuated by Russian armed forces today.
It’s a huge undertaking writing about an event that took place 400 years ago (especially when the information available is in a small Suffolk seaside town) and I imagine reading streams of information on the wrongful killings of women took its toll. How did you stay present and not let the actions of men in the past taint your worldview today?
I can’t deny that sometimes the grim nature of the historical material did affect me. It was important to read about the social context of the witch hunt, in particular to understand the societal factors that gave rise to such a hideous episode. Witch-hunts were usually publicly led by men but it is important to remember that women were also involved and it was often one woman denouncing another that set a witch-hunt in motion.
On a more personal level, I spent a lot of time talking to the key men in my life – my husband and son, and also my UK agent; they are just as appalled and outraged by the history as I am, and they have unstintingly given their support. At other times, hugging my dog and going to the gym were the best antidote.
What were both the easiest and most difficult sections in The Witching Tide to write and why?
The easiest and most enjoyable sections were the depictions of Clefwater itself, its landscapes, its citizens and its ways of life. I’m very interested in English wildflowers, for instance, and it was a pleasure to include these in the book.
The most difficult sections were, unsurprisingly, the descriptions of women being kept in truly abysmal conditions in prison. I didn’t make these up: I read really harrowing accounts of the conditions, how the accused were kept for months and sometimes years in squalor. In times past, prisoners were charged fees for their prison board. If you couldn’t pay your fees then you could languish indefinitely in a cell. Some women accused during 1645-7 were still in various East Anglian jails many years later.
What book(s) would you recommend to readers of your novel if they’re interested in witch-hunts, witch-trials, and witchcraft?
There are some excellent nonfiction accounts of UK witch-hunts. Professor Malcom Gaskill is an academic historian and an authority on European witch-hunting. His books, especially Witchfinders: A seventeenth-century English tragedy, are both highly informative and very readable. Dr Scott Eaton’s book, John Stearne’s Confirmation and Discoverie of Witchcraft: Text, Context and Afterlife is excellent and paints a very clear picture of the social context in which the East Anglian witch-hunt took place.
Other witch-trial novels I’d recommend are A.K. Blakemore’s The Manningtree Witches, Beth Underdown’s The Witchfinder’s Sister, and Kieran Millwood Hargrave’s The Mercies, which describes a vicious witch-hunt on the Norwegian island of Vardo. I especially love Jeanette Winterson’s The Daylight Gate which is about the Pendle witch-hunt of 1612.